Shock Rebound

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Shock Rebound

Postby TryHard » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:43 pm

Ok... so this seems to get asked a lot eslewhere.. so what is it?

Rebound is effectively how much the shock piston returns out of the body, after being fully compressed. To try it, remove your springs, push the pistion in the whole way, then let go. If the piston returns to it's full length, then you have full rebound... simple. Now the confusing bit is how people mark it on setup sheets, sometimes a % and some times as mm. Either way, what is critical is that you matching shocks left and right at both ends of the car.... the setting can obvioulsy be different front and rear if required, but must be the same left and right. Thankfully the TRF shocks are pretty easy to get right (see later)

Ok, so what does it do? To quote TRF USA team memeber Corey Whiteman...

Its an adjustment not too many people play with. I have tried alot of different shock adjustments at many different tracks. The effect of rebound directly impacts the way the car handles bumps and negotiates quick switchbacks(aka shicanes). I have found the more rebound i use, makes the car more responsive/aggresive but can handle bumpy tracks much better, less rebound the opposite is true. The reason why rebound works best for bumps is rebound keeps the tire in contact with the track after you hit a bump, the longer you car stays in contact with the track the more stable it is. As for shicanes your car needs to change directions quickly, so with alot of rebound your car will be able to transfer the weight L/R quicker with assitance from the rebound. For me i almost always run full rebound just because i like a responsive car and if there is any inperfections in the track my car will keeps its composure. Hope this was not to confusing!


OK, so we have that out the way... how do you set it? From me... (:p)

You can vary it by setting the piston to a certain position in the shock when you build the shocks.

Firstly, you need to make sure your pushing the shafts up equal amounts for each pair of shocks. To do this, I build up the shocks unfilled (rubber bladder, and top mount included), placing a red o-ring on the shaft between the body and the ball joint (I use this later to help set the rebound, if you look at Viktor Wilcks car, he does this too... it's where the idea came from :p). Then I'll pull the shaft down full, and measure with calipers the length between teh bottom of the shock body, and the top of the ball joint. It doesn't really matter what this length is, as long as it's equal on the pair. You should set it so you get your shock lengh required for correct droop (I think for a shock 61.5mm long, 12.5mm is this length... or in that ball park).

With that done, dissamble the top of the shocks, and pore the oil you want to use on top. Remove all the air by gently pushing the piston up and down, then leave stand for a while (or make it even better and use a shock pump). When you can't see any air bubbles in the oil, Hold the shock body, and push the shaft in too your required rebound level. This is where the red O-ring on the shaft comes in handy. (I use this as my setting for rebound, but you can use more o-rings/spacers if you want more rebound). Then place the diaphram on top, taking care not to a) adjust the piston position (if your using spacers, this is easy, as just hold the shaft up against them) b) introduce air into the shock. Carry on building the shock, and when you push the piston in, you should have your desired level of rebound.
If you've used a lot of spacers, you can remove them by undoing the ball joint, just make sure you screw back up to the same length as before :)


Hopefully that helps, any Q's post away!

Regards
Ed
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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby Andrewkeen » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:28 pm

Hi Edd.

Thought I would ask a question about the rebound. I have noticed in a lot of the 416 set-ups and for the 415 people running only a couple millimetres of rebound. But in the quote about he runs full rebound. I now its down to personal preference, but why do so many run so little rebound, as thins is something I am just starting to experiment with as a chap as my club suggested I don’t run as much rebound as I had.

Thanks
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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby TryHard » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:01 am

Hey Andrew,

To be honest, it really is a personal preference thing. I switched a while ago to running less rebound than previously, and certainly prefer the feel of the car now. It does help to make the car feel more stable, and I can get the reaction back in the car via other settings (such as stiffer springs, higher roll centres), so at the end of the day, it's something to experiment with, and just get a setting your happy with.

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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby Lowie » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:18 am

TryHard wrote:...
Firstly, you need to make sure your pushing the shafts up equal amounts for each pair of shocks. To do this, I build up the shocks unfilled (rubber bladder, and top mount included), placing a red o-ring on the shaft between the body and the ball joint (I use this later to help set the rebound, if you look at Viktor Wilcks car, he does this too... it's where the idea came from :p).

...

Hold the shock body, and push the shaft in too your required rebound level. (This is where the red O-ring on the shaft comes in handy. I use this as my setting for droop, but you can use more o-rings/spacers if you want more droop). Then place the diaphram on top, taking care not to a) adjust the piston position (if your using spacers, this is easy, as just hold the pistion in against them) b) introduce air into the shock. Carry on building the shock, and when you push the piston in, you should have your desired level of rebound.
...


could you post some pictures, explaining or showing what you mean?
thx!
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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby TryHard » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:28 pm

Hi Lowie,

When I get my camera back, I'll try and take some pictures of the technique.

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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby Lowie » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:53 pm

thx dude :)

got my TRF 416 just yesterday and am just dying to build, test and race it.

Guess it will be a big improvement over my old TA05 :D
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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby ta05 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:20 am

The red foam on top of the cap assists rebound too, so this is probably why you see it on so many 415 setup sheets.

Maybe less rebound will help to tame the car a bit when it has a tendancy to grip roll, but i've not had this situation recently to try my thoughts.
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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby Lowie » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:05 pm

TryHard wrote:...
This is where the red O-ring on the shaft comes in handy. (I use this as my setting for rebound, but you can use more o-rings/spacers if you want more rebound). ...


Something I do not understand dough. I thought I understood the concept but ...
I understood that you could use the O-ring as a marking.
So to put the O-ring on a certain distance of the bottom of the Shockbody and then push the piston in, until the O-ring touches the bottom ... then finish the assembly of the Shock.
But I guess this would not be easy. The O-ring is very easely pushed from it's original position.

But then I thought I understood, you meant that you could fill up the shaft with a desired amount of O-rings, then push in the shaft until the bottom of the shock-body touches the O-rings, and then finish the assembly.
Same principle but you wouldn't run the chance of pushing the O-ring out of place ...
If this is correct, then there is something wrong because with more O-rings, you would get less rebound-action.
Or am I wrong somewhere?

...
mm, now I wonder ...
Do you build the shock, placing the baldder and screwing on the shock-cap, normally with the piston fully pushed in or out.
I always do it with the piston fully extended, so shock at maximum length. The rebound comes then from the shaft-volume pushed into the shock, which increases the preasure within the shock.

Besides, another idea:
Would it not be much easier to just put a marking with a permanent marker on the shock-shaft? And then use this marking as a reference point. This would later on be easely be removed with some brake-cleaner, or something similar... or even be kept onto the shaft. I think this marking will not intefere (significantly much) on the action of the schock.
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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby TryHard » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:16 pm

Hi Lowie,
What you say second is exactly the method. Havign the O-ring actually on the shaft means it doesn't move when you come to set the rebound. You could, if you wanted remove the o-ring after fully assembling your shocks (you would need to remove the ball joint, then wind it back on to it's original position), however the shocks would never use that amount of travel, so it won't ever impair the performance (if, for what ever reason they were to bottom out, it would act like a rubber bump stop in full size race cars, and actually cushion the bump a bit).

In response to the rest of what you say, Yes thats how to build the shock. Fill with oil and remove any air, then press the piston/shaft into the body until at the stop (depending on the number of o-rings etc), then place the bladder ontop and bleed the shock, and then place on the top cap, all the time holding the piston/shaft against the stop.

I think you have your thoughts on rebound back to front. How you set your shocks at the moment gives full rebound, i.e. the shaft rebounds 100% after compression. Following the above method, adding more O-rings to the shock will give more rebound. Removing O-rings would give less. 0% rebound could be acheived by removing all the O-rings, and having the ball joint against the shock body. Then, when the shock is compressed, the shaft wouldn't rebound at all.

The reason for the O-ring rather than a marker is that it's a bit easier to use. I personally find it difficult to hold the shaft in the correct place, whilst attempting to assemble the rest of the shock, with the O-ring, you just push it against the shock body and it's set, simple :)

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Re: Shock Rebound

Postby Lowie » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:02 pm

I think I totally get it now :D

Thx for taking the time to explain all this to me.
Again, something learned :D
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